Saturday, 9 July 2011

And... The follow up reply from logic himself...

what i was speaking of, are aliens by far more advanced than us, but lets make some order because.. im not a great writer, in my opinion anyway, im better in thinking with numbers:


1. the race's evolution: do humans truely evolve these days? since evolution depends on the survival of the fittest, this is not the case today.


today each country tries to keep its own deaths to a minimum, poor, rich, wise or ... dumb (i dont really like calling people dumb etc but i cant find a substitute here..), and those that dont die of unnatural causes (even disease is unnatural really, because our medicine infact had an effect on microbial life here) normally end up growing families and having children, wich means there isnt really an evolution process here.. since people mix from all over the world today.

so to sum it up, if the race has the technology to cope with the difficulties and make up for its own weaknesses, there is no real evolution. its the technology that evolves and adapts today, not us.


2. the distance: true, light is not fast enough and matter as we see it, cannot move at that speed, however there are theories even today for engines that use more unorthodox methods for propulsion.. such as bending space infront and at the rear of the space vessel in a way that will make it "move" forward, allowing it to "pass" the speed of light, also while the universe does expand, the amount of matter in it with wich we interact gets smaller every moment as some black hole consumes an other star, so the matter of the universe does not expand but the oposite is true, while the universe expands at an accelerating rate... meaning matter is spread more thin over greater distance, meaning the aliens would, too.


3. energy and resources: even today we can make a closed eco system, nasa has plans on making a moonbase (thats from their own site) in the near 10 to 20 years, which is a negligible time in astronomy, especially if this alien race can be millions of years more advanced, after all the earth exists for only roughly a third of the universe existance and it cooled down a long time ago, besides... we have no idea of the limitations of life, or the true definition of life, because what is life? a sentient being? if so... a high tech computer is alive, wich means... life has really no boundaries and could have survived even in the early chaotic universe.


4. aliens size and age: if the alien race is an ancient one, it will have to be huge.. humanity has been growing in numbers during its existance, therefore an alien race that is around far longer than us, must have enormous proportions, leading to expansion over an increasing in size territory.

just think, how long does humanity exist? we have findings dating back to what .. 10,000 years? (im not familiar with our latest and most ancient human remains finds)


we expand and grow in numbers faster every year, meaning a race thats even 1 million, not to mention a billion, years older than us would have exponentially greater numbers than us, requiring resources meaning they would cover a vast space, because a single solar system couldnt support that, besides the more advanced we get, the more resources every single one of us use.. just multiply this a few times , too.

Spikes reply

The only possible aliens that could, would or will land on Earth are microbes - bacteria and maybe viruses.

The main problem is that of distance, both in light-years and time. 
As far as the size of the universe is concerned, I will agree completely that there have to be aliens. However, unless there are uncountable billions of them, they wouldn't be able to spread evenly in a concentric manner. Don't forget that the universe is 3D, so they would have to spread up and well as out and across. That takes a lot of resources.
'People' as well as minerals and fuel.

Even if they leave the original planet in many directions, they are going to be spread more and more thinly the further they go.
Look at an old wooden wheel. Imagine that the home planet is the middle and that each spoke is the course of a separate colony ship. As they start out, they're next to each other, but by the time they reach the wheel rim, they're quite far apart.
If you translate that into astronomical distances, we're suddenly talking about a humongous area of unexplored (and, to all intents and purposes, non-explorable) universe.

Going back to the problem with time. There simply isn't enough time. The universe is expanding, which means more distance between galaxies and solar systems. Not every planet is the same age as another; by the time the sun's light reaches us, the sun itself is another 8 minutes older. The supernova in the sky last night was the death of a star that died thousands of years ago. The stars we see in the sky above us right now may have already died, but we just haven't found out about it yet. The universal messaging service just ain't that quick. How do you think a space craft travelling at a speed less than that of light is going to fare? It's barely going to cross the galaxy, let alone the universe.

Also, genetics won't allow it. Evolution is slow, but it happens anyway. Unless you manage to invent some kind of universe-hopping system (wormholes etc, which means you won't be exploring the intervening space, so you lose out that way too), the species will be sufficiently different by the time they get anywhere like the next galaxy.
Don't forget that evolution depends upon the environment and the needs of the inhabitants to survive it. That means that each of those colony ships going in different directions are also gradually becoming different to each other.
Another thing on the genetic side of things; evolution isn't always a case of better, better, better. Your can only go so far. Insects cannot grow to be cat sized, cats can't breathe underwater and jellyfish can't fly.
Yet. Oxygen levels may increase dramatically, which would allow insects to grow larger. Cats may grow to like water, spend more of their time near water and eventually begin to evolve flatter limbs to help them swim better (after all, that's what happened when a group of bears gradually became whales), and jellyfish may evolve a shape that allows the wind to catch them from the surface of the sea and which them away from danger.
These changes aren't *better*. They're just more appropriate. A sea cat isn't better than a land cat, it's just different.

Ultimately, any space-going species needs to be able to plan for journeys lasting generations, millennia to find even a planet that is habitable for them, let alone to find a planet that has intelligent life with which they can communicate (or exterminate, whichever they find easiest).
In the end, that species if it wants to survive as long as possible, needs to start planning ahead so they can build a space craft the size of a moon that can take what will amount to the whole species around the universe, looking for resources. Maybe they will find a suitable planet before the species implodes (due to genetic, sociological and environmental pressures), maybe they won't. However, they're most likely going to become some massive hermit crab, carrying its home around with it and occasionally shucking it to find something more suitable for its current needs.

But that's just my opinion there at the end.

Aliens or Gods?

Ok So Mikeys just gone on his rant about tha fact Aliens probably do exist and are probably what we would call godly beings... And that they have more than likely visited earth. Upon Threatening to blog everything he said, He has now said I should write it up with him and chuck it out and see what (as I put it) "the open minded friends of mine" say... We're going to, so The bonkers lot May want to find the headache pills, this is almost as bad as Julie applying "logic".... 

Here's his take on it (and give him a break on spelling mistakes, he isn't english though he can speak it better than his native language...):

"well, il sum it up here a bit..
the universe age is around the 13.5 or so billion years, right? the earth was formed 4.5 billion years ago and most astrophysicists agree that the likelihood of alien life to exist is unbelievably high (chance for it not existing is 1 in a few billions multiplied, it should be around the number of solar systems in existance, or perhaps planets even?).
Considering these 2 facts, is it really that far fetched to assume that there are incredibly advanced aliens out there, who are more evolved and advanced than us by say, a billion years? can you imaginehow advanced humanity would be in that time?
Such a race must have godlike capabilities compared to us, even the futuristic us in sci fi.
Now if such a race exists, it would probably expand during this whole time, no? travel through galaxies even?
If thats the case, wouldnt it be realistic to assume that they have visited the earth? Its enough to have 1 such alien race in the whole universe, and the chance for them to visit the earth then wont be low, but who is to say there arent even more? 
For some reason scientists expect us to find life that is ill advanced to say the least, they hope to find microbial life, but really, wont it make sense that a race thats expanded over galaxies / solar systems to be an easier and much more likely discovery?"

Yes, He is damn logical. Yes, With the things he comes out with I'm gonna put everything on here...

Aha!

So easy :D